Art Sobczak on Thriving Online by Mastering the Fundamentals

#5: Art Sobczak, legendary inside sales trainer and author of the book Smart Calling: Eliminate the Fear, Failure, and Rejection from Cold Calling, shares what he’s learned from creating content in many different forms for sales professionals for the last 35 years and how mastering sales fundamentals helped him transition from traditional direct marketing to building a thriving business online.

You can find Art on his website or reach out to him on LinkedIn or by email at [email protected].

Episode Transcript

Ep. 5: Art Sobczak on Thriving Online by Mastering the Fundamentals

Art: So the shifts that I made were too niche a little bit more and to put more of myself into my material because let's face it, information is everywhere. It's prevalent. If you want to know how to do anything, you can find that on YouTube. But what people can't get is you. What people can't get everywhere is me. When I put my own spin on material and when I put my personality into it and when I become more of the celebrity, which is a whole different business model, that's when people are going to follow you more and of course pay for it.

Josiah: That was Art Sobczak legendary inside sales trainer and author of the book Smart Calling: Eliminate the Fear of Failure and Rejection from Cold Calling. In this episode Art shares what he's learned from creating content in many different forms for sales professionals for the last 35 years and how mastering sales fundamentals helped him transition from traditional direct marketing to building a thriving business online. You definitely don't want to miss this episode, so let's jump in.

Announcer: You're listening to the content heroes podcast, where entrepreneurs, marketers, and creatives share how they build profitable businesses on their own terms by creating content online. And now your host, Josiah Goff.

Josiah: Welcome to Content Heroes, everyone. I am here with Art Sobczak and he has been in the content creation game for over 35 years, mostly focusing on sales training. And he has created content in just about every form imaginable. Thank you so much for being with us here today, Art. I really appreciate you being on the show.

Art: Josiah, thank you so much. It's an honor and a pleasure to be here.

Josiah: Let's start by talking about your journey and how you got into content creation and how it's led you to where you are.

Art: Wow. How much time do we have? So a little bit about my business. I focus on sales training primarily on using the phone in the sales process. Way back in the day, when I first started my business started at the ripe age of 22 I left a cushy corporate job with the old AT&T when there was just one phone company and a partner and I went and started a consulting company, which really wasn't the smartest thing to do at the time because we left a nice corporate job with a guaranteed salary for a job. Actually, it wasn't even a job because we had no clients. We had no revenue coming in. So there was a little lesson for anybody out there, try to have some revenue coming in before you leave the corporate job and I know you left the corporate job. You might have had kind of a similar story from what I've heard about your background. Right?

Josiah: I had nothing. Started from scratch.

Art: But anyway, we were cocky enough and naive enough to make it work. Being a consulting business, we were teaching people how to do telemarketing, which at the time back in the early eighties was not a bad word. Actually AT&T spent a lot of money on showing people how they could use telemarketing and again, it was business to business inside sales as we call it today. But my partner left, decided he wanted to go to law school and I decided I wanted to keep the company and I was going to make it work, but I also had enough business savvy to realize that consulting is not a good business model because it's one of those jobs where you make yourself obsolete if you do a good job. And I thought I need to figure out how to get some recurring revenue and therefore my first information product was born and that was, I decided to do a newsletter, a sales tips newsletter, and actually I started to do that in the first year. For the first year I sent it out and this was physically mailed. Okay. This was on paper because, well, of course there was no internet back then. I'd physically mailed a sales tips newsletter and build up a mailing list to about 300 people. And the plan was after a year of people receiving this content and I was going to hopefully get people to pay for it. And what happened was after a year of sending it out every month, I sent out a letter, a direct mail letter saying that hope you've got value from this, I'm going to actually ramp it up a little bit more and we're going to charge for it. And I sent along an invoice saying, of course you're not obligated pay up unless you want to for $99. And so I had about a 50% response rate. Therefore, my first information product was born. And then also what I decided I needed to do was be in the speaking of business. Speaking was a lot easier than consulting because I could go out there and give a one hour presentation or one day presentation or a couple of day presentations. And charge as much as we would for consulting gigs. The problem was I was terrified of speaking. I was pretty good at marketing, but I really just didn't want to get up in front of people. Which was kind of weird because I was a DJ actually in college for four years. But again decided that if I'm going to make this work I need to go out and be the best possible speaker I have to be. Went out and got all the information I possibly could on it and I made myself into a great speaker and started picking up speaking gigs. Then, and I know you wanted to keep this within like what a four hour time window here. So keeping this in the context of content production and marketing, I also realized that doing speaking gigs was a pay for play where you go out, you show up, you're basically a high paid contractor. Although the money was great. I also realized I needed some additional recurring revenue besides the newsletter. So then I thought, well how about training programs? So what I did then was I recorded an audio training course on cassette. It was called telephone selling skills. I don't even have a copy any more, but it was six cassette tapes in a workbook and sold that I think for about 200 bucks at the time, which was a fair amount of money back in the day. And people started buying it. That was the next information product and I can keep going here, but it's your show.

Josiah: Wow, that's awesome. So where did you really start to make the transition fully over into the online content creation.

Art: When this thing called the internet started up. If you want to do a timeline here, we're still back in the late eighties and the internet wasn't even a thing until what,96? 97? I was in content creation and content marketing way before this internet thing. And I did a lot in that time period. So here I was creating all this content and by the way, I mean the internet is just, you know, online is just a distribution medium. Everything I was doing back then, I'm still doing today just in a different way. It's kind of funny when I see all these online marketers doing all these things. And they're falling. You know Russell Brunson, who is awesome by the way. I've mean I follow him, but do you have a lot of people who think that these guys invented this stuff? This stuff was rooted back in the old direct response marketing back in the day, and I don't want to sound like the get off my lawn guy, but I was doing these things in print way back. What I did was I had all this content. People say, well, do you have a book? Do you have a book? And I thought, well no, I don't have a book, but I've been writing this newsletter for five, six years. I've got files and files of stuff. I decided, well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to come out with a book and I went through all my past newsletters, categorize them by topic, and put my first book together, which was called How to Sell More in Less Time with No Rejection Using Common Sense Telephone Techniques. And basically I just stitched together everything that I had already created and sold by the way and put it into book form. Released that and many of the people who had already been getting the newsletter bought the book and then other people were buying the book and I was selling that through direct response marketing and that was before Amazon by the way. That was again a another form of content. Also, during the meantime to generate leads, what I was doing was the form of what's known today as the lead magnet. I did several booklets, like 29 Telephone Tips That Sell. It was a booklet. You could send me a self addressed stamped envelope and we would send that booklet to you, generated thousands of leads that way. Of course, when we send that out, then we would sell them the book, we would sell them the newsletter, sell them on speaking gigs. Then I got into the seminar business after that in addition to picking up in-house speaking clients. And by the way, everything that today, I still speak on, I've done over 1500 training programs over the years. Everything that I speak on was first something that I wrote and put into the newsletter, which then up in the book. Today, it's in my podcast. I guess the lesson for any content creator here is that anytime you create something, you can deliver that in all different mediums. And no one is going to get your content and consume it in all of the various ways. Because one thing that you probably have found out is that you have some people who say, there's just not podcast people. I've got other people who say they're not readers, which blows my mind, by the way. Whatever we create, we can re-purpose in so many different ways. I mean, I'm kind of the King of re-purposing. I just don't create something once. I'll probably put it out in five or six or maybe 10 different formats.

Josiah: Wow. So what is your primary format these days? Are you still doing writing first or are you recording audio video first? What does that look like?

Art: Well, I would say yes, but

Josiah: However, it comes out.

Art: Well, I'm not sure what's first because today what my business looks like is I still speak for clients. I still do the high paid speaking gigs, not on the road as much because I can do what we're doing here. Can be in front of a camera and a microphone, which I do all the time. Delivering webinars, delivering seminars, still doing some speaking. Little bit pickier about what I take on there. And right now doing the third edition of my flagship book, which is called Smart calling: Eliminate the Fear of Failure and Rejection from Cold Calling, which really was the first book I did with a major publisher. I had self-published four of my own books before I did one with a major publisher. And by the way, major publishers are not in the business of selling books. They're in the business of printing books. They want us as celebrities and speakers and authors to sell the books, which I have over the years. So 10 years after the first edition of that came out. I'm doing the third edition right now and everything that I'm updating in that book, which is about 30% of the book is not surprisingly everything that I've written since the second edition came out seven years ago. And I'm stitching it together. I mean, why would I reinvent the wheel. And I've got so much more material than I could possibly put in that thing. Other formats, I've started doing a podcast, funny story on the podcast. I did my first podcast when the iPod, who has one of those, first came out, which was probably 10 years ago. Back in the day, I just simply did some audios, some mp3s, and I put them up online. I'm not even sure how people were able to download them. I gave up on that because it wasn't a thing back then. But then of course, obviously over time podcasts became more popular. Actually it exploded in popularity and I still was telling myself this story of, you know, been there, done that, tried it. But then I'm hearing from other people going, Art, you have to be doing podcasts. So about a year ago, I finally looked into it more 'cause a friend of mine said, no gotta do it. And I looked at it and thought, oh yeah, I should be doing this. As we had discussed before, I went from idea to first episode in about three weeks and now we're about a year into it. Well, that's another format. But just about, as you said in the introduction, I've still got every other format out there. I still do a monthly newsletter that I started doing 35 years ago. So it's like writing a term paper every year for 35 years. So still doing that. We're not printing it anymore. We're just doing it as a PDF. I've got a Facebook community. I've got a membership site where I do a monthly webinar. We do a coaching call. What else do we do? They get the newsletter. As part of that, I've archived almost everything that I've published over the past 10 years. I've got that into another product. Still selling our books both in print and digitally. I know I'm probably missing something else here. A blog, an email newsletter that goes out every week, just constantly publishing content. And one thing I've learned over the years is that the more you give, the more people are going to want of you if you're truly providing value. And things have changed though dramatically with this internet thing. I say that jokingly, where there's so much more information available today, it's more difficult to sell that it was when people just couldn't go in and type a couple of keystrokes and find more information than they could possibly ever consume.

Josiah: My friend Jeffrey Kranz who runs Overthink group, we just recorded an episode. There's a really great post that he's done on what is content marketing and how does it work? And one of the things that he touches on in that is just that shift of power from the businesses into the consumer because now the consumer can go and find as much information as they want and they're making 90% of the decision before you even have a chance to know that they exist. It's interesting how that shift is sort of affected the whole landscape.

Art: Well, I'll tell you what it changed for me and when I noticed the sales starting to go down probably in the, gosh, maybe, late 2000, 2009, 2010 I thought, man there's just so much information out there and so many more people are giving stuff away for free. I've got to make some shifts here. So the shifts that I made were too niche a little bit more and to put more of myself into my material. Because let's face it, information is everywhere. It's prevalent. If you want to know how to do anything, you can find that on YouTube. But what people can't get is you. What people can't get everywhere is me when I put my spin on material and when I put my personality into it and when I become more of the celebrity, which is a whole different business model, that's when people are going to follow you more and of course pay for it, which is really all that matters because last time I checked, my mortgage company would not take followers and likes as payment.

Josiah: So much there and it's great that you have such a higher level perspective on the whole industry. Having gone through that transition of pre-internet days into the internet days and then making those shifts where I feel like some people couldn't make those shifts and fell off the radar, but you've made those shifts and you've adapted. Your business seems to be thriving as a result. There's a lot that I wanted to touch on there in that whole journey. Can we go back to the podcast? One of the things that you talked about was how you went from idea to first episode in what you say three weeks?

Art: Yeah.

Josiah: What did that process look like for you? What was kind of going through your head? Because I know a lot of people get really hung up actually taking that leap and committing to it. You've been doing this for years, so was that still a challenge for you or did you just sort of jump in? What did that look like?

Art: No, I think I had a little bit of an advantage because I have created so many different types of products and I've tried so many different things and not everything worked. So number one, I didn't care about possible failure because it really wasn't even a thought for me. I thought, okay well other people were doing this, I can make it work. It can't be that hard and whatever I need to know I'm going to go find out how to do it. I had the content part covered 'cause I knew that I have tons of content and I also had contacts all over so I knew guests weren't going to be an issue. And what I also didn't want to do was to go out there and copy other podcasts. I listened to a few and I knew what I didn't want. What I didn't want was to waste people's time with fluff and that's always been a big motivator for me. And anybody that's heard me speak or fall away material will know that because I'm big on the how to not the should do. Oh, you know you should do this and you should get to decision makers and you should ask questions. I'm going to tell you exactly what to say and how to do it. As far as the podcast, whenever I start something new and I recommend this strategy, I go into mass information accumulation mode. When I started my blog 10 years ago, I went out and bought every book available on Amazon on blogging. Probably 20 of them. Some were good, some were not. I took the best and then just jumped into it. Too many people get paralyzed by, oh my gosh, well what if this doesn't work in this and that? As opposed to what's the worst thing could happen if I just do it right? But do it from an informed perspective. So I went out and I joined one of the popular membership sites. It was John Lee Dumas on podcasting, which was great. You picked up great stuff. A lot of it was for somebody who's been doing marketing for a while. It was common sense, but for someone who has it, it was golden. It was step-by-step. And a lot of this stuff, I mean, I already had the technical stuff. I mean, I've already set up, I have a studio gear, I've got microphones. I've been doing audio for over 20 years, so that was not an issue. The software, as far as getting it up, that wasn't a problem. Yeah, I do the artwork. Sometimes people agonize over omg get the colors just right. Nobody cares. It's a podcast, right? Let's just get that first thing up there. Then they agonize over, well, you know, if nobody's listening, well, nobody's probably going to be listening for the first few. Who cares? I was lucky. I've got a list of 25,000 people and followers, so immediately I started getting people listening. I've got a Facebook group of over a thousand, so I had a built-in audience already. It wasn't that difficult, but if somebody is out there saying, well, you know, geez, I don't have all that stuff. So what? Most people don't, but everybody has to start somewhere. As we were talking before, once you start and you put things in motion, then the road appears. Once the journey starts. Many of the things that we fear are unfounded because they never happen anyway. So if anybody's thinking about doing it, go out, educate yourself, but then get in motion and you're going to find that it's not as difficult or as imposing as it looks.

Josiah: That's great. I'm curious, you talk about really valuing the how-to, the action steps. What would be some of your key action steps for actually launching the podcast? And I'm half asking because I just launched and I want to kind of pick your brain a bit about how do I go about promoting it and growing that audience. If you're just starting from scratch, how do you get started? What would be the steps you would take?

Art: I'm not sure if I'm the best person to ask because again, I had the advantage of an audience already and in the people that I studied who are doing extraordinarily well, they already had a list. The ones that didn't have a list, I mean, I'm not sure how big your list is here. I'm not sure how you would go about doing the marketing on that other than if you're going out and getting some big names, of course you want them to promote for you. I know some people have started that way and they got some traction to begin with. I would say be consistent and don't get down. I saw, what was the number? Maybe you've seen this. Most podcasts don't make it past the first 10 episodes. Well, what's going to happen is once you have self integrity and consistency, it just becomes non-negotiable. You continue doing it and you put a promotion plan in place. You're a savvy promoter just based on what you've told me so far to get the reviews that you've gotten, I would continue doing that. I would get people to share with their audience and share this with mine. You're going to get some traction that way. There's a number of best practices out there. I'm not the expert on this. I would encourage you to like you have is go get the books, go study the people that do this for a living. If you already have an audience, blast it out to them at every opportunity and I'm not beyond begging for people to share. As I do in many of my episodes. And that the thing is that if we truly have a message that needs to be heard, we need to, as both of us follow Jim Fortin, as Jim says, we need to go to the top of the mountain and scream about it. Not just keep it to ourselves.

Josiah: Yeah. I love that. I love. One of the things that Jim says a lot that has really changed the game for me is we get into this sort of comparison game comparing ourselves to other people and that's what keeps us from taking that leap a lot of the times and a mantra that I've adopted from Jim is stop asking myself if I'm good enough and ask myself, what does the world need? And by shifting that focus off of me and onto like how I can serve people that just dissolves that whole fear because it's not about me anymore. And then I can show up and I can let whatever needs to happen happen and facilitate it where I can, but then just still stay detached from it so that I don't get caught up in my own head. I love that.

Art: And that is such great advice. There are so many people who are sitting in the sidelines right now who had the same idea that you did and still have that idea. And they're not doing anything because they're worried about what some people may think. People they don't know who they will never ever talk to. Why in the world would we care about them or they're comparing themselves to some of the biggest podcasters out there. I'm looking at this as again, just an additional mechanism where I can help more people and I am to the point in my career where the money is great but I'm not doing it just for the money. And I truly do think about how many more people can I help? If I compared myself to some of the huge podcasters out there, I'd probably say, Oh, what's the use? Um less than a year into it, we're going to hit 100,000 downloads. Probably next week. Jim hit a million already. And he's been in less than a year. If I looked at that going omg I only have a tenth of that. Who cares? I mean, because I'm looking at all the people that have already contacted me saying, omg, I got this idea and this one helped me close a big deal. There are so many more people out there, so I would encourage anybody listening to this. If you're sitting back and you're worried about - what is somebody going to think and am I good enough? Like Josiah just said, if you have a message that you feel is worthy of broadcasting out there, go out there and scream about it. Don't worry about what somebody might think about you.

Josiah: That's awesome. One of the things that you said that I found is really interesting is that you're still doing the newsletter. How long have you been doing the newsletter for now?

Art: We're in our 35th year. Longer than you've been on the earth.

Josiah: That's it. Oh, that's amazing. The format changed a little bit though because you're emailing it out now.

Art: Yeah. Originally it was printed on paper and let me tell you how we published this back in the day. People are going to laugh. It wasn't typesetting like they used to do in the day. We actually had a printer that was a Daisy wheel. You might be able to look this up. It was a Daisy wheel that actually looked like typewriter print. We were printing out the copy and then we would cut it out with scissors and then paste it up onto a template and then take that to a printer. That was our typesetting and then in I think the late eighties, Xerox came out with this software called Xerox Ventura, which was the first typesetting software, which I know today to people they're probably saying, what the hell is he talking about? But I invested in that, which was probably about $2,000 at the time, which was probably like $10,000 in today's money. And got the software, which made it look like magazine print. It was amazing. Then after that of course then we just followed the technology. So I've always been kind of a technology geek. And actually we just stopped mailing it out physically probably within the last three or four years, which I'm not totally sure that I might not go back to mailing it out. Because if you think about it, mail is not dead. Physical mail, if it is something that someone's interested in, we open up first class mail. If it's something that we subscribe to, I mean I still get some physical newsletters and I mean I will rip those things open and start reading them as soon as I get them.

Josiah: Yeah, it's interesting how that has shifted back a bit to where everything was just pushed online until we've just oversaturated everything online. As soon as something new comes out, we just oversaturate that. I've heard that, too. Like people have started supplementing their online campaigns with more physical and they'll actually like mail out packages and put little, I think John Jantsch had talked about this putting something bumpy inside of it. So they actually open it up. They've seen really great ROI on getting that sort of thing in place. So it's interesting how it's getting a resurgence.

Art: For some people, it's never gone away. And again, I built my business originally using direct mail. And a person who I can actually call a friend because I knew him since way back in the day. And he's in ill health right now. Hopefully he's gonna make it as Dan Kennedy. And Dan Kennedy to me is one of the greatest direct marketers of all time. And Dan coined the term lumpy mail, which is what you're talking about. Which is putting something in an envelope that is three dimensional. Some people call it 3D mail. When you get something in a package that just looks a little weird naturally it's going to create some attention and get open. And that's the goal of all direct mail first, get open, then get read.

Josiah: Yeah. I've even seen that even without the bumpy mail, some local businesses have actually handwritten on the envelope or have stuck like a sticky note on the inside that they handwrote on top of their printed thing. And I opened it and I read it like it totally worked. Even if it's not like really personalize, it feels personalized because there's just that little touch of handwriting on it.

Art: I actually have to laugh because those things were being used in the late seventies, early eighties. The sticky note and another one is you get something that looks like actually a page torn out of a magazine or newspaper, an ad with a sticky note on it saying - Josiah, I thought you might find this interesting, And of course it's all planned and it's all automated, but it looks like it's personalized. And again, those things have been going on forever. And yeah, they're making a resurgence. And and why is that? Because they work. You're right. I mean I've been around and have used most of every new shiny object that's come out because it's the new thing. Let's face it, the fundamentals work.

Josiah: Yeah, absolutely. So we've covered a lot of stuff, starting off doing direct mail and then the newsletter and speaking and consulting and then transitioning more online podcasts, Facebook group. Do you have a YouTube channel. My big question here is like how do you keep track of all of that? Do you have a team behind you? You have like a bunch of processes in place? What does that look like logistically?

Art: I have to say that I am not a good business person in the sense that I delegate a lot. Over the years I've going from having staff, I mean an office building and I learned really early on that I was a great salesperson, a great marketer, a great speaker, not a good manager, and not a good delegator. I really didn't like the thought of having to manage a lot of employees. And as a result of that I didn't get to be as big as I probably could have been with a hundred employees and you know $100 million in sales and all that, but that's okay because I've done okay. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. To answer your question, right now I am pretty much a one man band with some contractors and having some virtual stuff done. I do have a lot going on, but the thing is that there is no such thing as time management. There's only priority management. And people waste so much time by not doing things that actually give them a result. It's not that tough to throw up some posts. It's not that tough to write something that is going to provide some value. Once you have a process in place, it's not that tough to do a YouTube video because you don't have to reinvent the wheel every single time. Plus again, once you create something, you can put it out there in a variety of different mechanisms and you can use the automation for a lot of it, as well. I'm not sure if you're doing this, but with the podcast, I've got some software that as soon as the podcast goes up, it actually creates a blog post and WordPress that it actually creates a YouTube video and it actually creates a Facebook post. So all that's done, once I hit publish in my podcast software.

Josiah: I knew you could do some of that automation, but I definitely have not taken it to that level yet. So much great stuff here Art. Before we start to wrap up, one last question. You've done so much over the course of the last 35 years. For the people who are early and just kind of getting started today, what would be the one, two, three things that you feel like would help them the most to really start crushing it with online content?

Art: That's a great question and it's different today than it would have been 15 years ago. So here is what I would suggest. Number one, there's that old phrase, there's riches in the niches. And that is so true. Because there's so much noise out there today because there's so much free information. I would suggest that you pick an area that you can own. Okay? And you may not be the best at it, but you don't need to be the very best at it. But you should strive to become the best at it. And I mean better than excellent, become the guy or the gal who is going to be known for that particular area. You don't need to pick a big niche. I mean you can pick a small niche. Pat Flynn talks about how you can make a business with a thousand super fans and actually I think he got that from somebody else and that's true. It is amazing to me. If you Google anything, what you can pull up because there are people who are interested in the most obscure stuff. So pick a niche, become a specialist, and just become frickin' awesome at it. Then what I would suggest is do not be afraid to go out there and put yourself out there. People will say, oh my gosh, you know, I'm not good at video or my voice. People don't care. Okay, what people want is they want to relate to you. And that's one thing that it took me awhile to actually embrace. And actually I was kind of forced into it because I had to differentiate even more. There's only one of you. Anybody can put out the same kind of information as you, but there's only one of you. Now, there were people, for example, in my business who have built huge businesses based on their celebrity. And their material isn't any better than mine. Matter of fact, I'll put my material way above theirs, but they're tremendously successful because they've made themselves into a celebrity. How did they do that? They put themselves out there and they were different. And I'm not outrageous, but you know, I'm not saying don't do it yourself. 'Cause There are some people out there, they're known for screaming and ranting and raving and you're going to get some followers. So whatever your shtick is, I would suggest that you have something that differentiates you. Some people could say that's your brand. Again, whatever that is, that is one thing that nobody else in the world has. So if you combine that with awesome, awesome content in a niche. Now you've got a formula for just crushing it out there. And if you have all those things, the world needs you. So you need to make sure that you're out there and telling people about it. Screaming about it.

Josiah: Awesome. Oh, this has been so great art. Before we sign off. Will you just share with us where everyone can find you online?

Art: Yeah, they can find me all over the place. But if you want to contact me directly I would say start at my blog site, which is Smart Calling is my flagship book and product. We're transitioning actually over to that, so go to I've got tons of free stuff there. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. My name is Art Sobszak S-O-B, you remember the S-O-B part, C-Z-A-K. Connect with me there and if you do, mention that you heard me on the podcast because I'm big on non-generic LinkedIn connection requests. Matter of fact, I have a video, a YouTube video on how to do that.

Josiah: Art, this has been so great. Thank you so much for being on the show. We really appreciate it.

Art: Josiah, my pleasure. Let's do it again and I know your podcast is going to crush it out there.

Josiah: Hey everyone, thank you for listening to the Content Heroes podcast. I just wanted to take a second and let you know that we have some amazing guests planned for the coming weeks, so if you haven't already, go ahead and hit subscribe so you can make sure to catch every episode. And if you enjoyed today's episode, go ahead and leave a five star review to help make it easier for other content creators to find and enjoy the show. Lastly, I'd like to invite you to join our Content Heroes Facebook community where you can connect with other online content creators to share, learn, grow, and have fun. To join the group, just visit Once again, that is

Share via
Copy link
Powered by Social Snap