#32: Matt Johnson, agency owner and author of the book MicroFamous, shares how to become famously influential to the right people so you can build a highly profitable business without building a massive audience.
Matt also explains why podcasting is such a great strategy for attracting high end clients and how influence is the missing link between content and sales.
If you own a service-based business and you’re looking to get more leads from your content and close more sales, then this episode is for you.
In this episode, you will learn:
- why you don’t need a big audience to become a simple profitable business
- the process of figuring out who your niche is and how to scale your business with your niche
- what the missing link between content and sales is and the strategies to gain that missing link.
- how to package your clear and compelling idea in a form that other people can consume and make it easily shareable.
You just need to be famously influential to a smaller group of people who have a real need for what you do. And they have the money to pay for it. And you can put out content that really speaks at a very deep level to them and ignores or even repels everyone else. (04:13)
If you attract them with the wrong message, they don’t buy. (05:39)
The riches are in the niches. (05:59)
I ended up with this service that is perfect for my right people and it was because I went to the few first, I skipped the many and I went straight to the few. (08:49)
Be Tesla. Go high end first and solve a really big valuable problem for somebody who has the money to solve it, work together with them to come up with a solution and then go and package that solution. (10:21)
You have to build influence in order to get people to go from consuming your content to signing on the dotted line. (11:02)
If you get other people involved in spreading your stuff, it makes everything a lot easier and you don’t have to be glued to your phone to get your content spread. (16:16)
If you’ve got something that’s scalable and you can’t get anybody excited about it, you have the wrong problem. The problem isn’t getting the word out. The problem is you built something that’s easy to provide, which means there’s probably enough selection of it out there that people don’t care that much about it. So it’s not causing action. (20:33)
Matt’s Content Heroes
Ep. 32: How to Become Micro Famous with Matt Johnson
If I could go back in time to when I was just pumping out content and hoping to generate sales, I would slap myself across the face and go, stop trying to build a mainstream audience and go right to the people that already have the money and they have problems. Figure out what their problems are and help them solve it. The funny thing about it is they're way more open to new things. Things that haven't been tried and tested and proven yet. They don't need you to have a thousand testimonials. They don't need you to have 100,000 followers on Twitter to prove that you're legit. Like if you go in and you understand their problem and you have a solution that they can understand, they will listen to you and they might even go, yeah, let's try it. Let's roll up our sleeves and work together and see if that works. Because they've got the strength of execution, the discipline and the business savvy to actually put something in place and chip away at it and get it to work. And then once they do that, you've got a solution. You can take to everybody else.
That was Matt Johnson, agency owner and author of the book Micro Famous and in this episode he shares how to become famously influential to the right people so you can build a highly profitable business without building a massive audience. Matt also explains why podcasting is such a great strategy for attracting high end client and how influence is the missing link between content and sales. If you own a service based business and you're looking to get more leads from your content and close more sales than stick around because this episode is for you. So let's jump in.
You're listening to the Content Heroes podcast where entrepreneurs, marketers, and creatives share how they build profitable businesses on their own terms by creating content online. And now your host Josiah Goff.
Welcome to Content Heroes, everyone. I'm here with Matt Johnson who is an agency owner and author of Micro Famous. Matt, thanks so much for being on the show today.
I'm super pumped to be here.
This is going to be fun. So before we get started and diving into Micro Famous, why don't you share your origin story with us and tell us how you got to where you are?
Yes. Okay. So, well, let's start with where I'm at right now, I guess. And then I'll flash back a couple of years. So right now I run an agency that produces podcasts and work with a lot of coaches, consultants, thought leaders, that's my people. But five years ago I was just some dude working at an agency, right? I was working at a digital marketing agency that specialize in video and I got the opportunity to start doing some Google Hangouts with thought leaders in the industry that they ran in. And that went really well. And one of the people I was doing the Live Hangouts with, just call me up one day and said, dude, we should start a podcast together. And I said, well, it's funny you should say that because I was going to pitch you on the same thing and you'd beat me to it. So five years later that podcast is still going. Although my co-host has stepped up into more of like the main host of that show, we have a million and a half downloads. We've got named like one of the top five podcasts in the space, it's in real estate and it was fun. It was a blast. It made both of us essentially took us from nobodies to speaking at major events in the industry in under two years. Like I was going back through my speaking engagements the other day and from the time that we flipped the switch and launched the podcast, within like 14 months, we were headlining like a packed out standing room only breakout session across the country with a bunch of people we didn't know. It was insane. So the, we have like an occasional co-host from Philadelphia and he drops into our Friday shows. He went and did a speaking engagement at a random Keller Williams office in Philadelphia. Had people coming up to him saying they recognize him from the show. And he's only an occasional co-host. So it was, it was a really fun experience and we were cranking out a massive load of content. Like we were doing live podcast up to three days a week. And by that time I was running a couple of others in the space. And the interesting thing about that was I had to build a machine behind me so that I could just show up and do the fun bits, which is the conversation and have all the production done behind the scenes. And that led to me doing what I do now, which is running an agency. But it also, the unintended side effect of that was that I was accidentally running a split test in podcasting without knowing it. I ran two podcasts in the same space. One of them had a very high end niche audience and the other had a mainstream audience and one was wildly easier to monetize than the other. And it wasn't the one with bigger downloads. And that was a huge revelation to me. And that's what sent me down the path that led to writing the book Micro Famous.
Wow, that's awesome. So let's dig into Micro Famous a bit. Can you tell us the premise of the book?
Yeah, so the tagline is become famously influential to the right people. Because what I realized from doing that split test and podcasting is that if you build the audience of the right people, you don't need a big audience. You just need to be famously influential to a smaller group of people who have a real need for what you do. And they have the money to pay for it. And you can put out content that really speaks at a very deep level to them and ignores or even repels everyone else. So what I realized is that doing, so I had my own podcast and then I co-hosted another one that was aimed at that smaller niche, more savvy, sophisticated audience that had more money and had a deeper, more advanced need. And so we put out deeper, more advanced content. Like we literally were talking about things that the average person in the industry didn't want to hear about because they didn't even see it as a problem. They weren't advanced enough to even have that pain yet. And so what we did is we attract an audience of people who were way, way different and they had the money to turn around and drop three grand and hop on a plane and come to my client's office in Omaha, Nebraska and spend 12 hours masterminding to fix the problems with their business. And like I said, that was a huge like light bulb moment for me because it didn't fit what most people talk about in terms of how do you build an audience. Most people tell everyone to build the biggest possible audience and then some small subset of that will buy your stuff. And to me that's theoretically true, but it depends on your messaging. And most people in order to get that big audience end up diluting their message down to the lowest common denominator thinking that's going to get them the biggest audience. And it might, the problem is when that works, if you attract them with the wrong message, they don't buy. Right. And I spent, you know, five years essentially running a podcast where it was much harder to monetize because we had a mainstream audience. But my co-host on that show attracts beginners and guess what beginners don't have, they don't have the money to pay for the stuff that you're selling. So you just have to be very intentional. And I think the opportunity right now, and not just in podcasting, but in online marketing in general and in anything that's a content business, the riches are in the niches, the riches are not in building a lowest common denominator, mainstream audience, and then trying to sell everybody a low priced product. That is a very hard path to having any kind of six figure business that you enjoy running. You can get a messy complicated business that way, but you won't get a simple profitable business that way. The path to is simple profitable businesses, a niche audience, so maybe 5,000 people, like think about if all of your Facebook friends on your personal profile, we're just the right people. They probably wouldn't need anybody else. And that's what I realized a couple of years ago is if I just had 5,000 of the right people that respected me, look up to me and I sold something that they needed, I really wouldn't have to ever build an audience outside of that. So I've been working on doing that ever since.
Oh man, that's great advice. So how do you go about that process of figuring out who that niche is, who it is that you want to serve and attracting just those people?
Well, the interesting thing about it is, so I talk in the book about the difference between the few and the many. So the many is easy. The many is the mainstream, right? It's the people that they're pretty happy with what they've got. You know, Seth Godin talks a lot about this in his latest book. The average person is happy with what they've got, but then there are people that are not. And that's the first group of people you want to go after is the early adopters, right? They're open to trying new things now if you look at an industry like let's say the industry that I came out of was real estate, the few, right? The high end affluent, sophisticated, savvy people in that space where the people that were either high producing agents that had a couple of assistants, they were running real estate teams or they owned small brokerages, right? They had completely different pains and problems from the rest of the mainstream and that audience, right? And so by going straight after them, we're able to solve a bigger, more urgent problem for them, for people that had a lot more money to solve it. And it was an urgent problem, right? They were working 60, 70, 80 hours a week in their business trying to figure out how do I get off this hamster wheel? And they had the money because they were working that, those number of hours. So I think like if I could go back in time to when I was just pumping out content and hoping to generate sales, I would slap myself across the face and go, stop trying to build a mainstream audience. And go right to the people that already have the money and they have problems, figure out what their problems are and help them solve it. The funny thing about it is they're way more open to new things. Things that haven't been tried and tested and proven yet. They don't need you to have a thousand testimonials. They don't need you to have 100,000 followers on Twitter to prove that you're legit. Like if you go in and you understand their problem and you have a solution that they can understand, they will listen to you and they might even go, yeah, let's try it. Let's roll up our sleeves and work together and see if that works. Because they've got the strength of execution, the discipline and the business savvy to actually put something in place and chip away at it and get it to work. And then once they do that, you've got a solution you can take to everybody else. So that's what my mentor did. That's what I did with podcasting. So I had kind of an example to follow. Thank God. And that's what I did with podcasting. So I ended up with this service that is perfect from my right people and it was because I went to the few first, I skipped the many and I went straight to the few.
And that is so awesome. I'm realizing just listening to you talk, I kind of did that intuitively when I started my agency, my web agency. And with that, because I left, you know, I left a six figure job and went from making that to nothing overnight. And so it was very much a, I don't have the time, I don't have the runway to try to attract a bunch of people at a lower price. I need to set myself at a high price. And it was so interesting how that just in the pricing and the way that I positioned myself, I was attracting higher paying clients with a different set of needs that I was particularly suited to help them with. And it's exactly what you're talking about. I didn't have any testimonials. I didn't have, you know, a bunch of work to show, but they knew that I understood their problem and they didn't, they didn't have to have that. And they were willing to take a chance because they needed those problems solved. It was a big pain for them. And so that's exactly what you're talking about there. And I've lived that firsthand and it's absolutely true.
Yeah, it's the Tesla strategy, you know, like that's exactly what Tesla did. They came out with a high end product first. It wasn't perfect. Everybody knew it wasn't perfect, but it was cool enough, you know, and now they're getting the kinks worked out. Now they can come out with a $35,000 car, sort of, that rolls off the production line. They have their issues, but you know what I'm saying is the right strategy for the time that we're living in, right? The right strategy is not to try to be Ford. When you have no capital, you have no connections, you're just trying to crank out content like don't be Ford and try to come out with a model T right away because you will get blown away. Be Tesla. Go high end first and solve a really big valuable problem for somebody who has the money to solve it, work together with them to come up with a solution and then go and package that solution. And you know, we were talking before we hit record that I think one of the big myths that's been floating around probably for the last five, maybe even 10 years in the internet world is that if you just create content, the content is valuable enough that it will get people to just buy. That there is a this straight line between content and sales. The problem is that's never been true. There was a little period of time where there was so little content on the internet that you could get away with it because there just wasn't a lot of selection. But now that we have selection again, it's back to reality, which is that there's that missing link between content and sales that there always has been and that missing link is influence. Like you have to build influence in order to get people to go from consuming your content to signing on the dotted line. I'll give you an example for my clients. So it was the one that ran the podcast for the higher end folks before we launched the podcast. He was doing an event like just a, like a mastermind type of workshop in his office that he was charging people two grand for. And he had to do all this back and forth. They would message him and it was kind of this informal thing. They'd have to jump on the phone and then he'd have to send them a PayPal invoice and lots of, lots of talk, lots of closing. You know, just to get a couple of people a month. We launched the podcast and fast forward maybe a year, year and a half, and he is filling the workshops. You know, every one to two months. And 10 people are showing up. He doesn't know any of them. He's never talked to them. They heard the podcast and they went and they signed up and they pumped out three grand cause he raised the price. They plunked down three grand on a credit, didn't talk to a rep, didn't talk to anybody. They literally got on a plane and showed up at his office in Omaha, Nebraska. And he didn't know who they were until they walked in the door. That's because we spent that year and a half using his podcast to build influence. So now the content did convert and it did generate sales because we filled in that missing link.
I love that. So the missing link between content and sales is influence. I'm really curious what from your perspective are some of the big strategies for gaining that influence?
Well for about the last, you know, five or 10 years or so, there's really been only two strategies that I see people using to build influence and kind of attract an audience online. And the best way to put it is you've got Gary V versus Simon Sinek, right? So we kind of know what the Gary Vee strategy is. But let me talk about Simon Sinek for a second because he's really interesting. Simon Sinek showed up with an idea. Start with why, right? So that first book. That idea was so interesting. It was so surprising. It was so what I would call clear and compelling that when he showed up and started talking, other people spread his message. Like you will not find Simon Sinek building a massive social media audience. You will not find Simon Sinek on TikTok as far as I know. Right? Because he's not, that's not his thing. His thing is he came out with an idea that was so clear and compelling that when he talked, other people went, holy cow, this is insane. I have to share this with people. Other people need to hear this. And then you have Gary Vee who shows up and in my opinion, his idea is not as clear and compelling. It's good enough. But basically everything Gary Vee says boils down to this one thing, which is anyone can hustle their way to success using social media. Great. It was an idea that was right for its time, but there's other people saying it wasn't all that unique, right? But Gary Vee shows up and completely blows everyone out of the water, just by sheer volume, right? Tactical superior, like he just showed up into over and over and over and over again gets a little bit better and he just bombarded the market was sheer volume. We also have to remember the Gary Vee has 19 people on his personal brand content team. So if you're going to, like everyone out there that wants to be a mini Gary Vee, get ready to hire people because that's the answer. If you want to really want to be Gary Vee, you're going to have to hire a whole team because Gary Vee doesn't do everything Gary Vee does, right? He just shows up and talks and 19 minions do all the stuff right? So I wanted to point that out real quick. So you've got these two people that are the perfect embodiment of the two different strategies that up 'til now have been the dominant strategy. To me, Micro Famous is a different way because the answer, if you want to build a simple profitable business and you don't want to have to be glued to your phone all the time like Gary Vee is, you have to go and you have to create an idea that's clear and compelling. Now what Simon Sinek did is he created a clear and compelling idea for a huge mass of people. That's really, really hard to do and you have to be really tied into to the spirit of the times, right? To come up with an idea that's both clear and compelling and has this huge potential audience. Those don't come along very well very often. Tony Robins is the ultimate example. Tony Robbins' idea, the idea that made Tony Robins famous is where you transform in an instant and I can help you do it. That was an idea that was so groundbreaking, so unique, and he could prove it at least to the I by his events. That's such a difficult thing to come up with. But for a niche audience of let's say 5,000 people, it's actually not that hard to come up with an idea that's clear and compelling to them because you only need those 5,000 people who have a problem that they care really, really deeply about. And you need an idea that speaks really deeply to them that nobody else in the world cares about. That's actually not that hard. And I meet a ton of people that have really amazing content that buried somewhere in that content is a clear and compelling idea to a smaller group of people and they're twisting themselves into pretzels, trying to figure out how to reach a big wide audience and they can't figure out why their message isn't resonating and isn't getting people to take action. And to me, that's why. They're trying to reach so many people that they have to dilute their message. They have to dilute their idea down to hit that group of people. So if you shrink the battlefield right? And you say, okay, I'm going to go after the right people, not everyone, just the people that I'm really excited to serve, then it gets a lot easier to come up with that clear and compelling idea that spreads and then you don't have to be on social media all the time because you're not trying to out shout everyone else. You have other people saying, Hey Josiah saying some awesome things you need to check out Content Heroes or Matt saying some awesome things on Micro Famous, it's not for every, but you need to check it out because this is for you. So if you get other people involved in spreading your stuff, it makes everything a lot easier and you don't have to be glued to your phone to get your content spread.
I love that.
I'll step down from my soapbox for a second.
No, I love that. And speaking as someone who is more low energy and doesn't want to like, I'm not a hustler. Like, I'm definitely, I'm the anti Gary Vee in that sense. And it's so funny that you kind of juxtapose Gary Vee and Simon Sinek. Cause I like when I think about kind of in my head who I want to be as either a thought leader or just a content creator or whatever. I've always thought of Simon Sinek cause I've always resonated with his approach so much. So I love that. So you know, one of the things that I heard you say in that is if you have this clear and compelling idea, other people will spread that for you. How do you, but there's still work to do on your part, right? So how do you go about kind of getting that idea in a form that other people can consume and make it easily shareable.
So I think if you look at your clear and compelling idea and set yourself the task of getting it down into one to two sentences that you yourself are really clear on that you can just read, just rolls off the tongue. So I'll give you an idea for my agency. The clear and compelling idea of my agency is done for you podcasting for coaches, consultants and thought leaders. So it tells people in what is that seven or eight words? It tells them exactly what the service is, what's unique about it and who it's for, which is part of what's unique as well. So here's what I found, go back four or five years when I was just booking people on podcasts and kind of making my way as a freelancer. And then, you know, like as an early stage agency owner guy, mostly just me trying to throw him against the wall and seeing what stuck, right? We all, we're all in that phase. So when I was in that, figuring it out, throwing in the mud against the wall stage, I would hop onto calls with people that I connected with, just 15 minute calls off of LinkedIn and things like that. And they would ask me like, so hey, what do you do? And I would just give him that one to two sentences and they're like, holy cow, really? That thing exists. So I can just show up and have the conversations and somebody does everything else. I can pay someone to do that. I'm like, yeah, that's what we do. And they're like, okay, we need to have another conversation. Like, okay, well let's book another conversation. And that happened over and over and over again. I would be booking people on my podcast just to have the conversation with them, featuring them on my real estate show and they'd go, okay, we need to have another conversation. Then we booked another call. And that was just a very like practical example of what happens when you get the right idea and the right people. And those two things match is it compels them to take action. Like once they realize, once they hear that, they cannot un-hear it, it doesn't roll off their back. They don't, you don't get a nice pat on the back and they go, that's nice. I'll have to keep that in mind. Like, no, if you're talking to the right people and you get that one, two sentences down, it should cause them to go, Holy cow, I didn't, I didn't even know that that was possible. Or we need to have another conversation like it compels them to take action. So set yourself that challenge to keep refining what it is that you do down into one to two sentences and keep telling people, keep talking to your ideal people until you get it, until you start getting that response. And one of the things that I love about copywriters is they tend to look at things from the buyer's perspective rather than from the perspective of the person selling it. So they ask themselves, what would someone flip out over? What would they absolutely crawl over broken glass to buy because it would solve their problem. And then they work backwards from there and figure out what can I do that? I think everybody that's listening and I and I should have done this in the beginning too. If I would've started more from that perspective, I would have hit on my clear and compelling idea faster because I would have gone, okay, well what my ideal clients want is what I have, which is I show up and I do my podcast. And I don't even have to think about any of anything else. Could I build that as a service? And the answer was yes. Now there were a lot of problems that I solved on the backend, but the big problem to solve is what the service is that causes people to go, Holy cow, I need to learn more about that. That's the biggest problem to solve. You can figure out the operation stuff later, but the coming up with something that's so clear and so compelling that people have that response, that's the first problem to solve. And until you've solved that problem, you don't really have a business that's easy to grow. You might have a service that's easy for you to deliver, but that's not, you know, you're like, you see a lot of it. You see, I'm sure you run into a lot of people that they feel like they have good content and they have a business that could probably scale, but they can't. They just need to get the word out. Like that's not the problem. If you've got something that's scalable and you can't get anybody excited about it, you have the wrong problem. The problem isn't getting the word out. The problem is you built something that's easy to provide, which means there's probably enough selection of it out there that people don't care that much about it. So it's not causing action. So we're step into the shoes of the person that you want to sell to and think about what they would absolutely freak out over and then figure out how to give it to them.
Oh man, I love that. Okay, so we've got this idea, we started to refine it. We are, you know, we're starting to have these conversations with some people in our niche. What are the next steps after that? How do we start to scale up from there?
So once you have an idea that resonates with people and you figure out how to provide it, whether it's a product or program or service, there's something very, very important to understand about what's going on in the internet world, the online world in terms of how do you reach new people. 'Cause I alluded to the fact that like if you've got the service and you think the challenge is getting the word out, you've got the wrong challenge, right? But let's say you've got something that does get that reaction from people and now really legitimately the challenge is how do you get the word out? So we're in an interesting time where there's two big challenges. Number one, organic reach is falling through the floor, right? If you have a Facebook audience, like you're lucky if 5% see your posts. If you have a Facebook page, it's worse. It's more like 1%. And Instagram is not going to be very far behind. And the problem is, is that now that that model is established, every other social media network knows it. So if you think TikTok is the answer, good luck. Snap, good luck. Because here's what's going to happen. Every social media platform knows the recipe, give you exposure, give you a taste of what it's like to reach all those people organically for free. Implement the algorithm, charge you to reach the people. Four step process for extracting money from your wallet, right?
Yeah, so that model is out there. That is the pattern, and every new social media app is going to go through that same pattern. So if you think you're going to build an audience on TikTok and then reach them for free for the next five years, it's not going to happen. It's only a matter of time until it's paid to play on every single platform. Here's the problem with paid traffic though. It's not easy to get right. Perry Marshall, one of my favorite experts in that space said, look, the first 500 bucks you spend on Google ad words is basically a stupidity tax because you don't know what you don't know. Right? Seth Godin said something to the effect in his last book. He said, look, the magical formula for these magic funnels that just spits out passive income. He says, from the vast majority of people, it's a pipe dream because the web is so cluttered and people are so distrustful that it costs more to get a new customer to buy your thing than the ads costs to run that and get them to buy. So content creators right now are stuck in between a rock and a hard place. Organic is getting harder and they're reaching fewer people with organic social media. At the same time, paid traffic is getting more expensive and riskier and less effective. So it's like, well, how in the world do you reach more people? Well, the good news is that now as podcasts have come out, there's this whole ecosystem of podcasts where they have the attention of a lot of people, right? Every podcast has an audience. The average podcast gets something like 200 downloads. So if you think about being a guest on a podcast is essentially the same as going into a sold out standing room only breakout session. Now, how many people do you know would turn down the opportunity to go speak in front of 200 people about their product or service? I don't know of any, and I'm talking about people that are millionaires. They'd still get on a plane and show up for the opportunity to speak in front of 200 people. But when you'd be a guest on a podcast, you're doing that and more because that's just the minimum, right? Some podcasts have huge audiences, some have really active, engaged niche audiences where the podcast gets a few thousand downloads. That's like doing a keynote in front of thousands of people and you get like 40 minutes to just hang out and talk like we're doing here and talk about your book or your product or whatever. So the good news is look, your next post on Facebook or Instagram, you know, it might reach 10 people, it might reach 50, it might reach a hundred. Odds are it's the same hundred people who see that post every time. They're not your market, they're not your buyers, right? If you pay for an ad to reach those a hundred people, you're going to pay for it. And it's hard to make that pay off. But podcasts you can go be a guest on and you get introduced as the trusted expert by somebody else who has done all the work to build the audience and you get to just be introduced and chill out and have an awesome conversation and spend 40 minutes talking about what you do. So to me that's the answer right now is podcasting, being a guest, first. Doing that for let's say six months or so, really getting your message clarified, right? Make sure you've got your clear and compelling idea down and then you launch your own show and then you use the podcasting to just drive that message, drive your clear and compelling idea home into the market over and over and over and over and over again. And just attract the people who resonate with what you have to say and give them a place like your own podcast where they can come and hang out with you as the leader and start to like, it becomes like an incubator for new ideal clients. You'll start to have people go, Hey, I've been listening to your podcast for six months and I'm ready to sign up. Great. Your sales calls go from being 60 minutes of you trying to persuade them to 15 minutes of them trying to persuade you to take them on as a client. It's awesome.
I love that man. Matt, this has been so great. Before we kind of start wrapping up, one of the things that I'm always curious to ask people is who have been some of your content heroes, those who have been some of the people who have really influenced you?
Well, I think some of the biggest influences are the people that are I guess deeper thinkers. So Seth Godin is a great one. I think everybody should go get his book. This Is Marketing. It's unbelievably helpful and you know to clarify some of these ideas. And then in the agency world, like if you're building, like if you're in any kind of digital marketing or something like that, go get, well actually if you are any kind of expert, let me back up and rephrase that. If you are any kind of expert and you're running a service business, which I think is a much easier model for most people to monetize content is to offer services, go get David Baker's book, The Business of Expertise. David is like the Simon Sinek of the agency world, right? He's like the agency whisperer. Basically he has a book and he does like a weekly email and there's so much in that weekly email that you'll be chewing on it for the next week until you get the next one and then that one will break your brain again. So I like guys like that. I like the guys that tend to not be on social media a ton because they're thinking, right? Perry Marshall is another one of those guys, the guy that wrote 80/20 Sales and Marketing. So there's a couple of books. Like I would say those three books, I would recommend that everybody go read right now. Like literally drop everything and go get those three books on Amazon and then lock yourself away for a week.
Awesome. Yeah. And then after you're done with those three books, go get Micro Famous and read that. Yeah, there you go.
Oh Matt, this has been fantastic. I really appreciate you being on the show. Before we sign off here, can you tell everybody where they can find you online?
Yeah, the easy answer is getmicrofamous.com and that has links out to you know everything. But yeah, if you go to a, like if you want to take that, the easy practical first step in that strategy, the Micro Famous strategy, go like start by getting featured on podcast or you know, kind of clarifying your idea. Start talking about your service, go to howtogetfeatured.com. So I did a masterclass on how to get podcast hosts to feature you and get featured as a podcast guest expert consistently like month after month after month without you doing any of the backend work. So it doesn't take any time away from your business. So that's howtogetfeatured.com.
Fantastic. And we'll make sure that those are all linked up in the show notes. Matt, once again, really appreciate you. This has been an awesome conversation and for everyone out there listening, go be a hero.
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