Kim Doyal on Why the Key to Success is Having Fun

#3: Kim Doyal, formerly known as The WordPress Chick, is a podcaster, content marketer, and co-founder of the Content Creators Planner.

And in this episode, Kim shares her journey as a content creator and entrepreneur and tells us why the key to success is making sure that what you’re doing aligns with who you are and what you care about (it should be fun!).

Connect with Kim via her website or email her at [email protected].

And of course, visit and enter to win one of her awesome Content Creators Planners as well as a $100 Amazon gift card!

Episode Transcript

Ep. 3: Kim Doyal on Why the Key to Success is Having Fun

Kim: It launches. The MVP was, not what it was supposed to look like, but really I could just feel it and it was like we would go from talking all the time to a taken a couple of days. We launched it and within a month I was like, Oh, I don't like doing this because all of a sudden I'm submitting support tickets and doing stuff at night. And yeah, I got out of that. Right. We had dealing with developers at night and I just said to him, I said, look, if you don't want to do this, you just need to let me know. And he's like, yeah, I'm done with it. I said, okay.

Josiah: Hey everyone, we have an amazing guest for you today and I am super pumped. Kim Doyal, formerly known as the WordPress chick is a podcaster, a content marketer, and the cofounder of the Content Creators Planner. And in this episode she shares her journey as a content creator and entrepreneur and tells us why. The key to success is making sure that what you're doing aligns with who you are and what you care about. I can't wait for you to start listening. So let's jump in.

Announcer: You are listening to the content heroes podcast where entrepreneurs and marketers and creatives share how they build profitable businesses on their own terms by creating content online. And now your host Josiah Goff.

Josiah: Welcome everyone to Content Heroes. I'm your host, Josiah Goff and I am here with Kim Doyal, formerly known as the WordPress Chick. Kim, thanks so much for being with us.

Kim: Thanks for having me, Josiah. I am totally excited to be, I like to be on the other side of the mic as much as I love doing my podcast. This is really fun for me.

Josiah: Awesome. So can you tell us just a bit about who you are and how you got to, well, how you got to where you are. We can get in all of that, but just a little bit about your background.

Kim: Yeah, absolutely. I will try to do the cliff notes version here. I started my business in 2008, believe it or not, and I was actually widowed in 2003. My kids were super little. They were six and two. It's car accident. I was working full-time in retail management. Anybody who's ever done that knows that is zero quality of life. And I don't know, I've always had this bent within me that I was supposed to do something else with my life. And I had a retail scrapbook store in 1998, I had done like content recruiting for retail management. I tried all these different avenues and I went to this, there's a wealth expo in San Francisco. Learning annex, I don't know if you remember those, but they were really popular. And it was funny 'cause the keynotes were Trump, Kiyosaki and Tony Robbins. But what was super fun, this was before the real estate crash, right? But there are all these offshoot like little speaker sessions, right? And I went into this one and it was internet marketing. So that was probably 2006 at this point. And I had, I have always sort of been an audio file. I think that's the correct word, right? Like you're obsessed with audio. Like I had a crate of cassette tapes in my car, I would listen to Napoleon Hill and you know like all of the Nightingale Conant stuff. And so I had this CD set from Mark Victor Hansen. It was "Build Your (Mega) Speaking Empire" 'cause I always wanted to speak. And there was one specific CD with an internet marketer also talking about making money on the internet and stuff. And I was like, what is this? So, a friend and I go to this little off shoot at the expo and this guy's talking about how he's making like $8,000 a month with these little niche sites, right? Writing eBooks. So fast forward to 2008 so I kind of played with it a little bit then, but I had a cushion and I'm like, screw it. I'm going to do this, right? I need to be here for my kids. I can't be gone 60 hours a week. 'Cause it was hard. It was hell. I mean there were times it was like drop one off to soccer, drop one off here, then pickup. And it was just, anyways, so I started of course the intention thinking I was going to be the information marketing millionaire with eBooks and I don't know, I started with like a social media course and I'm like, I'm going to show up and do this course. It was like $1,500 at the time, which was insane when you're not in this info marketing space. But I'm like, I'm going to do this. I'm gonna engage in the forums. I met somebody, I got introduced to WordPress and it just sort of snowballed and I kind of fell in love with WordPress, still not sure what my angle was going to be. And before you knew it, like I grabbed the domain name, the WordPress Chick. It was great. I did, I mean, talk about ignorance is bliss, right? And I always joked around that it was sort of like my angle was teaching the everyday user and I just kept showing up my first product ready for this was literally a physical DVD that I shipped to people.

Josiah: That's awesome.

Kim: It was a webinar that we did on setting up Google analytics with WordPress. And for what it's worth, like I'm completely self taught, but I just like, I would hire people to do coaching. At first it was AdSense, I was going to try this and I just kept sticking with it before you know it, like I was bartering websites to kind of get my feet wet. And then I'm charging for websites and then I've got outsourcers and then I started coaching and I would say it was God, what year was it? 2013. I joined a mastermind, this is not really a cliff notes though. Super sorry. But it was on Facebook ads, but it was a friend of mine running it and I was like, I don't really have a high ticket offer. But I threw it out there and this was when you could make, God what was, I think I spent 80 bucks for ads and I made about $10,000 in coaching. There were strategy calls, right. And I was charging...

Josiah: Those were the golden days of Facebook ads.

Kim: Totally. Let me just tell you, it hasn't hit till, you know, but it was, it was one of those things that I'm like, wow, this works. But I'll tell you in the meantime, so much of it didn't feel right at the same time I had started my podcast. And it's funny, I did it. I had a conversation last week with Corey Miller from ithemes. Right. I have it on my website where I say the best thing I ever did was launched my podcast. And he's like, so why was that? And I, he totally was like, I thought you were gonna say something different. I did it because I wanted to have more fun. I was really tough. That was it. I was like, I'm so tired of just being stuck behind a computer. And I felt like a, a workhorse with clients a little bit, and I'd always wanted to speak and I'm like, screw it. I loved podcasts, listening to them, and I'm like, I just, I'm going to do a podcast. And at the time, or maybe three or four other WordPress podcasts and it blew my business up because relationships. I ran the gamut of that. Next thing you know, I'm doing coaching, I've developed an outsourcing company, none of which I ever wanted to do coaching. I like, but outsourcing and web development, I always felt like an impostor. I'm not a developer. I knew my way around WordPress but never wanted to learn php. And I would say it was probably, and I keep fast-forwarding here, but 2016 I was gonna do a saas product with somebody, a developer. We kind of partnered and I'm like, that's it. I'm shutting everything else down. Which was crazy. Like I needed the income. I was drawn a line in the sand. I'm like, I'm sick and tired of doing work I don't want to do. And so from there, this has took like a year and a half. You had major health issues, but sort of in the background. And I'll tell you just like every single time I've done something for fun, it ends up paying off greatly because I'm totally not attached to the fact that it's supposed to make me millions.

Josiah: Right.

Kim: And so I launched the Content Creators Facebook group and my only intention with that was to be consistent and show up. And I was like, maybe a membership, maybe not. Fast forward, a year later I pivoted, I got rid of the WordPress Chick to my personal brand. And we launched the Content Creators Planner, which was, it's literally just a year old, the idea. The physical book is not even a year old yet.

Josiah: Wow. We got our hands on a really early copy earlier this year. Right.

Kim: You did. And nobody can see this, but I have to show you Josiah, to say it is a nicer, I will send you a better copy because it's much nicer than the generic one you got.

Josiah: That's awesome. Oh man, that's quite a journey. So let's back up a little bit. What was the WordPress Chick? What were you doing exactly in that? What was the business there?

Kim: I was building websites and I had an outsourcing company and then I was doing coaching for people who had similar businesses, which is how the outsourcing companies sort of came to be. It's crazy Josiah, there is a perception when you show up. Do you know that? Probably the last four years I had that site. I didn't even have a portfolio up. I never marketed websites, but I talked about WordPress, so everybody assumed, right. And they would just, I got inquiries all the time and that's the power of content marketing. I was talking the talk and you know, I had done a paid course or this and that here. I was so anti-getting stuck in this how to do this and how to do that. And I didn't want to be in the place of diy-ers who were like, all I've got is 50 bucks this month and I'm not judging anybody for being there, but that doesn't help me pay my bills. And also when you learn more, you don't want to necessarily be in that space. You know? So the WordPress Chick, it was for just a long time, it was websites and then the outsourcing, I mean that was complete passive income, right? I had a project manager and I forgot within there, I did a done for you podcast service. It's called Influence Podcasting. And I'll tell you, that was a super easy sell because podcasts are a lot sexier than websites. They just are according to the public perception. I'm not saying one is more important than the other. And I believe in the power of podcasting because what it did for my business, I mean I got coaching clients, I got sponsors, I got websites all just came to me. And again, I was doing it just for fun. Mind you, there was a content piece of it, but that's not why I started it. So hopefully that answered your question.

Josiah: Yeah. So how long into your business was it before you started the podcast?

Kim: I started doing websites. God, within a year probably. And this was when WordPress, you had to install a plugin to reorder pages and the navigation, it was like two point something. I just couldn't, and I'll tell you, this is something about when you feel like when we were talking before this call started about finding your niche and you know, it's like, I don't believe in this. I'm going to pick this and do this. That's never worked for me. I have to do the work and get clear. And sometimes clearly it's taken longer than I wanted, but at the same time, who you become in the process of doing the work, it's kind of priceless. You can't figure that out and people are waiting for this lightning bolt to hit them with this. This is the product, this is the course, this is the market. And I'm like, it doesn't always work that way.

Josiah: I can still relate to that. I left my job a couple of years ago without a plan. I just knew I had to make a change. And I just sort of fell back on some WordPress skills. I had no idea what I was going to do. And it was that same thing that what you're talking about. I just started doing stuff for fun. I'm like, that seems interesting. Let's try that. That seems interesting. And it was so much fun and work just started coming in. And there's something about like when you live in that space with that energy, it attracts all of that to you. Exactly what you're saying, when you try to grab ahold of something and force something to work, like it just like repels everything else.

Kim: It does. Anytime I'm like, Oh, I need to, I need to make money and I'm going to do this course. And it's like that frenetic, like help me, I'm poor mentality comes through in the offer and I'll tell you like with a planner, that's one of those things because my business partner, Jody Hirsch, like we both have our own businesses. So we did it, we stuck with it. We just keep course correcting. We started ads in May, swear to God, Josiah, like, we're getting like a 300% return on ad spend, on one ad that we created in May. And you guys, I'm not, we're not spending thousands of dollars a day. So not, you know, but the point is we do it because we believe in it and we love it and we're trusting it and we've not been doing it because we need it to pay the mortgage necessarily. You know what I mean?

Josiah: Totally. So when you started the, so you started the podcast because you just wanted to have fun, like what was your process for getting started? I'm really curious, like how all that wasn't, how long it took you to really start gaining traction with it.

Kim: You know, it's funny because I don't know that I even remember paying attention to downloads for awhile until, well, I was just kind of like, okay, I got started. I had a friend that was more into mixers and that kind of stuff, and he's helped me get set up and I knew that I was going to do a solo show and then an interview in the solo show and an interview. I don't know, maybe my ego needed to be an expert in there, every other episode, but I just continue, you know, so I'm like, I knew it was a way for me to find my voice also. 'Cause I look back at like the first post I ever published and it was horrible. It was so robotic. I'm like, who wrote that right. But once you do this, and when I do a solo show, I write my episode out first and I don't ever read it. Otherwise I get way too off topic. I just started reaching out to people like Carrie Dills and I are good friends now. I didn't know, but I knew of Carrie, I just started emailing people. And to me a podcast is like the ultimate give. Like how else you'll say to somebody, let me use my platform to spread your message. That's it. It's a total give. Right? So I just was so detached from it. One thing led to another and it was so funny when you start getting people reaching out to you, cause to you you're like, well I'm just me. Right? And they're like, oh, I've heard of you. And you're like, what? And I also think the other piece is that if someone's willing to listen to me for an hour, like they're my tribe, they're my people and they get me right. And once you start doing that, I can't begin to tell him that people will be like, I hear your voice when I read your content because you write the way you talk and they start, they just start connecting with you. And you know, I've written some really personal or recorded some really personal things and the outpouring of love from the community is amazing. And on the flip side of that, Josiah, one of the most important elements to a podcast - that's consistency. And mine hasn't ever been as inconsistent as it has been the last year and a half of my life. It's just been because life has been challenging. I had a really hard time with my son in high school. He graduated. Everything is good now. Thank God. My mom got sick and passed away this summer. I am just at a point in my life or I'm like, it is what it is. I'll get back to it when I can. I believe in it. I love it. I don't know. I cannot do the judgment of doing enough anymore in this phase. So hopefully I've put enough goodwill out into the universe and to my audience that they understand, which is why I do a lot of vulnerable transparency. Like, hey, I'm not just, you know, a complete and empty and bailed on the podcast. My life has been really hard. So...

Josiah: Yeah. It definitely seems like you have, you've attracted that tribe though. Like you're talking about. I can see that like in the Facebook group and I can see that with people online. Like they're there to support you. Obviously, it's terrible like the circumstances, but it's great that you can kind of walk away for a little bit and take care of personal stuff and then come back and pick it up. Like that's fantastic.

Kim: Well, thanks. Otherwise like why are we doing this, right? I mean, what is the point if you've created a job for yourself that you can't step away from, and you know what, I'm going use this quote so many times, it was, I heard it from Wayne Dyer on who said it, but at 18 you're worried about what everybody thinks, at 30 you don't care what anybody thinks. At 60 you realized nobody was thinking about you to begin with. Right. So it's kinda like, so we're all mirrored in our own stuff most of the time. So when you hear from somebody or you see something that touches your heart or connects you or you resonate with somebody, I dunno, you hold onto it. It's life. It's too short. It just is what it is. So I just tried to keep it real. And there's something about those really challenging life circumstances that give you a little bit of a, screw it, I don't care. Right. Love me, hate me. Don't be indifferent, but I have to survive this. So that has to come first and most people are right there with you. Sorry, that went really sideways.

Josiah: No, that's awesome. That's awesome. You started with the WordPress Chick stuff, you started the podcast, you sounded like you kind of got sidetracked with the saas product there for a little bit. Do you want to talk about that? Like, what was...

Kim: Yeah, so, and that was because, and I've gotten nothing but love for him. I'm going to get a little bit boo. But it sounds like you talked about energy, so it's okay.

Josiah: You're in the right place. You're good.

Kim: Okay, good. I mean, I truly trust that the right people in the right circumstances show up. Had we not done that, I don't know that I would have launched Content Creators or the planner. I needed to get out of the website and the outsourcing stuff. And so the saas, the idea for it was called lead surveys and it was segmenting subscribers at the point of opt in. Right. It's kind of like right message. We started with that. There was stream, there's another survey slam, there's another plugin. I'll tell you now it's been a blessing because now that that didn't work, I watched, write messages, pivoted a little bit and it's a good, how do I say this? The thought of doing that is great, but it's still hard to wrap people around the process of how do I do this so that it makes sense. Then you really need to grasp the whole tagging and personalized marketing and stuff. Right. But anyways, I was totally committed to this and I'm like, look, he's going to develop it. I'll be like the content, the front, like we had a podcast, it was called Don't Give a Fox because our mascot was a Fox.

Josiah: Awesome.

Kim: And she was great and she was super cute. And I subscribed to, I don't use Clickfunnels, but I really watched their marketing and Expert Secrets was one of my favorite books. And this whole, sort of building that culture, for lack of a better word. So I just thought, look, we'll start building the content. And I started doing this and it's like, oh, here's a teaser. We pre-sold some of it and then he got really sick and at the same time that I had stuff, my mom before she passed away, but had breast cancer come back and it was just like, my son. It was just like life kept throwing this stuff at us. And so, but a year later it finally launches and you ever just get that feeling you're like, enthusiasm is not here. We both are just sort of like, okay, well we're kind of committed, so let's see this through. It launches. The MVP was not what it was supposed to look like. But really I could just feel it and it was like we would go from talking all the time to taking a couple of days. We launched it and within a month I was like, Oh, I don't like doing this. 'Cause all of a sudden I'm submitting support tickets and doing stuff at night. And it, yeah, I got out of that. Right. I mean, dealing with developers at night. And I just said to him, I said, look, if you don't want to do this, you just need to let me know. And he's like, yeah, I'm done with it. I said, okay. And it was actually a huge weight off my shoulders and like Content Creators had been growing. And I did a whole podcast episode on, over before it starts because it was, I mean, it was public for like two or three months maybe. And I just shared the journey and again, that's how we learn. I mean, if you put it out there, and, you know, it's funny, as Troy Dean and asked me one time, he's like, you're really public about stuff that doesn't work. And I said, well, it's a lot easier to be public when you know you've actually done the work. When you've half-assed it. And, you know, it's kinda like people, I'm going to buy a Facebook ads course now, I'm going to be a traffic agency. It doesn't work that way. So I just shared what happened and I mean, how many times, like we were talking before, I mean, you start this, you have an idea and it leads you to where you're supposed to go. And had that not worked, I don't know that we would have launched this planner. I mean, or had it worked. Do you know what I'm saying? I would have been so invested in that. And this is super passive and this minus packing and going to the post office. But, you know, I just trust and I wished him nothing but the best. And we've connected again and he's healthy and his business is thriving again and it's just, that's all that matters.

Josiah: Yeah.

Kim: But I learned, I never want to own a software product.

Josiah: Oh man. So I was a product manager at an email marketing saas company. It's so funny to me sometimes, and I mean, sometimes it really makes sense. Like the software companies, I feel like, who kind of bootstrap and do it wells. A lot of times they're like they're eating their own dog food right. They're creating something to solve their own problem first and then if they're like an agency or something, then they use it to, you know, they're kind of paying for it with the agency revenue. I always kind of chuckle a little bit when people talk about how they want to create passive income. And so they want to create like a saas product. Most people don't realize how much goes into building it and supporting it and maintaining it. And that's just likethe technology side. That's, you know, not counting all the sales, all the marketing, all of the infrastructure for the organization. Like even for something small. There's so much to it.

Kim: And documentation and you know, it's crazy 'cause I had some plugins developed, too. And way back one idea with a friend. We had a developed, it was called webinar engine. I wanted a landing page on WordPress that people could register for, go to webinar and an email service provider. Now this is when go-to-webinar is the only option out there. But even then it was like we sold it, but I'm like this is a nightmare. Especially within WordPress when it has to exist and live and how many different environments. Oh my Lord pass. Someone asked me, they're like, are you going to put the planner into an app? And I'm like, no, get your pen.

Josiah: I have so much respect for people who really stick with it and see it through because it is very, very challenging to see a software product come to market and then you know, do well.

Kim: But don't you think that people that do that, I mean that's their internal, like innate, they've got that drive, they want to do it now if you're doing it. I mean, I thought lead surveys was a great idea and you know, there's stuff out there that does that. At the same time, I liked the idea of having a software company. I like the idea of creating content or a software company and building a brand around it. I was not like, oh, I want to be on Zendesk all-night or something, you know what I mean? It was like, and it wasn't so much, I love playing with software. It's fun, but I do not want to be mirrored in the deep into the nitty gritty every day.

Josiah: Yeah. You gotta make sure that you're aligned with what you're doing.

Kim: Exactly. I saw a quote that said, alignment is the new hustle. And I was like, hell yes it is.

Josiah: So awesome. Oh man. You talked about something a second ago where you said that people ask you if you're going to turn the content planner into an app. And you said no. I always find it interesting too, when people make the transition from more digital online stuff into an actual physical product. What inspired you to do that? And what was that transition like?

Kim: So, quick little story for you. So like I told you, I owned a scrapbook store, like way back. And I had had some font stickers published that I designed. I also drew as a kid. I've always had kind of artsy and I dunno, probably a year and a half ago. My aunt's like, Oh, have you heard of the bullet journal? Interest me, I do journaling now and then I'm not a super, soon as somebody tells me I have to do something, I got a little bit like pissed off. I don't know what it is. Maybe it was like trying to be the kid who never disappointed but it's one of those things. And so I get the bullet journal and I started doing it. I'm like, it's a little bit too structured for me. Like, I'm not gonna do an index of my year and but I had bought the journal and I love the paper, the quality of it. And I love the dot grid as opposed to lines or squares. So I'm like, I'm just going to do whatever I want with this. And I had pulled out markers again, like when I had the scrapbook store, I have like, I could probably open a mini store. I have so much crap. But I figure at some point I'll get back into it. And so I started just doing stuff and whenever I would map out a funnel, I do it on pen and paper. I need to see it. Right? And so I kind of started testing this and I sort of mapped out, I just got like a big drawing pad, colored pens, and I shared a picture on my Facebook group, we were like, Oh my God, I love that. I love that. And it's like seeing that, right? So in the meantime, I'm kind of playing with this bullet journal and I'm sharing that I'm doodling and doing all this stuff. And I had gotten back into watercolors and somebody was like, Oh, have you heard of this? Well, the journaling world is like this massive subculture. Like there are people that have like a million YouTube subscribers and they share their monthly spread, their weekly spread and they're drawing and it's like, Oh my God, this is insane. So I took the journal and at one day I would be doing like a funnel. The next day I'm like, what do I want my life to look like? Like big vision planning and whatever. But I was having fun with pens and drawing. So I took a few pictures and I put them up as Instagram stories, my hashtag everything is content, right? I'm like, just share what you're doing. Everything is content. And so I shared three stories and the middle one I shared with the hashtag journaling, well the first one got like 60 something views. The journaling hashtag got like 543 views. And then I went to like 60 and I'm all, huh, I think there's something to this, right? And I just kind of let it percolate to be honest with you. I was like, there's not a content planner out there. And I'd seen that the passion planner launched on Kickstarter phenomenally. And I started seeing this. And at the same time there are other, I don't know, gurus, big marketers like Todd Herman, amazing person, I've no for against him or whatever. But a friend had showed me his planner, I'm like, this is like a part time job, like to fill in the planner every day. And I was like, this is too much. I just need something that, it helps me map out sort of my thought processes. And so at first I was telling myself, Kim, wait until 2019 like, eh, you know, just, just do it. Cause I does testing a membership site. And so this guy, this artist had emailed me and he's on my list and I was like, Hey, so I have an idea. Would you be interested in partnering on this? Oh yeah. Hey, well three weeks into it and no logo, I just said, I'm gonna take this back, because I had been through what I went through with the saas and I'm like, I'm not dragging this out. But then I was like, Oh my gosh. My friend Jody, who I've known online for like five plus years is a graphic designer. I know she's been in business 25 years. So I messaged her on Facebook and I'm like, hey, do you know InDesign? She's like, yeah, what do you need? She was on a cruise in Europe. Mind you. I'm like, well, I have this idea. I said, you want to do it with me or can I hire you? And she's like, yes. Literally a month later, she gets back last September. I'm drawing, we're doing zoom calls. She does the first spread of it. I shared my Facebook group and it was massive validation. It just took on a life of its own, Josiah. And Kim brilliantly decided let's launch a Kickstarter December 3rd so I don't know why we didn't just pre-sell it, which we ended up doing because a couple of weeks in we're like, we're not going to hit the funding goal for this. Had never launched a Kickstarter. And I'll tell you one thing I've learned in the 11 and a half years I've been doing this, I never give myself enough runway. Like I can get the product done or I can get it done. But the marketing, come on Kim back into this a little bit better. So it was the week before Christmas. We're like, okay, we're not getting the funding goal. And I think our deadline then was beginning of January. And with Kickstarter you don't get those names and emails. You can message everybody but you don't really get it unless you reach your goal. So we're like, all right, well how quickly. So we got WooCommerce up as fast as we could. We pivoted, I went and messaged everybody on there, said, look, we're going to finish pre-sales. We're not going to hit our goal. But we are still moving forward with this. And at the time we had been looking at doing overseas and like a leather bound journal and all these different things thinking we needed these massive quantities. And so we launched the pre-sale off the website, New Year's Eve, and we did like $1,500 in sales. So we're like, okay, we're gonna keep going. Whatever it takes. If we need more of a minimum to print the first run, we're going to do it. Jody found an amazing printer she's worked with in Atlanta. It was the best price with the highest profits margin that we could order the most, the least quantity. We couldn't have painted the better scenario. And we tried a couple of the people in between and it just took off. It was crazy that we started shipping them. We got feedback. People are taking pictures. And our goal obviously is to do content marketing for the content creators planner, but life, you know, and we have other businesses. And so in May, and I said to Jody from the get go, I'm like, we're running paid traffic. I'm not sitting on this, I'm not going to let this not get out in the world. Let's start at 10 bucks a day. We did. We've now scaled to $100 a day. It's working. We've been patient. We just keep moving forward. She'll have some come up in her life. I'll have stuff come up. All right, let's just, I'm gonna just trust. Let's just keep going. So it just, it took on a life of its own. And I'm sure you've heard that quote that nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come. And I don't know who said that, Einstein or somebody like that. And it's just, it really is the timing. We've gotten people asking for bulk orders and private labeling and you know, so we're just getting the affiliate program set up for it. Even with the holidays coming, I don't know, we're not ever going to discount the planner. I'll tell people that right now. We're never going to do that. But we will do bundles. And, I mean we set up an order bump and we like one out of three we're taking the order bump now. And so it's like how can we maximize that funnel and all that.

Josiah: Did you do cart flows for that?

Kim: Yeah, we did. Cause someone sent me the day, are you going to put her on? Yup. Yup. Shout out for sure. And then, you know, just tweaking that and we did it so quickly. We went to an event, a friend of mine who's killed it in eCommerce and you start seeing the possibilities of this. It's like, what's it going to look like if we add, Hey get your, cause it's a 90 day planner, but it's undated. So we didn't want people stuck in that. So on the thank you page, we're going off on another planner. If you didn't get the class, did you get the, I mean there's all those things that we still haven't even done. We haven't even hit retargeting, yet. So I swear we were so detached from what it had to do, what it was supposed to look like. We believed in it. And to your point, we created it because I wanted a content planner. I wanted something that said I'm gonna create content based on my business goals. And too many people like overthink content and I feel like SEOs making this big comeback like mainstream a little bit more, not that it's ever gone away. But people are really starting to realize there's, you know, the social media, everything is saturated is how it feels. So you better build on properties you own. Yes. Social media works. Yes, paid traffic works, but if you've got really good content, you can run paid traffic to content. And that's cheaper than a landing page. But yeah, digress. It's just been a wild ride. I just shipped three planners today to Australia and Canada. I mean I shipped to the US, too, but our shipping to Australia is almost as much as the planner, but we're not going to raise the price on the planner just to have cheaper shipping, you know what I mean? But it's like cost what it costs.

Josiah: Do you want to talk a little bit about how the planner works. I know it's more of a visual thing. But if you could share kind of, at least the thought and intention behind it.

Kim: Yeah. So we start with creating a campaign. What does it look like for the month? And it's like I said, it's a 90 day planner. And the point is, what are my goals for the month? And I don't necessarily mean maybe it's financial, but you could say, I want to add a hundred subscribers. I want to get booked on three podcasts, I want to sell 10 products. Maybe those are your goals for the month. And then it's, what's the content that I can create that's going to support those goals? So subscribers, you need to produce content or improve existing content and make sure you've got appropriate calls to action. And are you scheduling enough 'cause how many people create something and maybe it's a re queue on a social platform, but they're really not pushing organic promotion even back to that content they've already done, that's working. And so then the third piece of that, I should, like, the lead generation that's going to support that? And then the fourth piece of the campaign is, yeah, the calls to action is the third piece. And then it's what is your sales goal? What's the offer at the end? Right? So then what is your call to action? So it's kind of this, what are my goals? What's the content to support the goals? Then how am I going to capture that lead's or customer? And then what is it that I'm selling, right? Even if it's not from the call to action, you may be, opting in for something, but at some point are you selling them something after the initial opt in? So from there, then we do like a content strategy map where you break it down and you're like, okay, I'm going to create a podcast, a blog, and a video. You list what the content is and then you do the micro content. All right, I'm going to put four Facebook posts. And so here's an example that I did because we have a sample in the planner. I made up a fictitious spa as the business and I filled in the planner right now, mind you, I'll tell you like I drew these pages out and handed them to Jody and she put them in InDesign. Like I have the sketches. That's kinda crazy. But so for the spa, like we did this example of like a listicle post on seven ways to take care of your skin during the holidays or whatever, right? Take each of those listicle items and that's like its own social campaign, you know, stay hydrated. So there's samples in that. And then from there we've got a monthly calendar that includes funnels and sales goals. And you've got more of a broad campaigns. So for the month you want to look at when am I launching maybe an email campaign, or do I have a paid traffic or am I doing a webinar? When is a podcast? And then we do weekly where you literally break down each day on publishing. I'm emailing today, these are the social channels and there's notes and then we do tracking. So there's monthly and quarterly statistics and the stats page is even I do one that's more like a sales page. And then the other page is your traffic. So, you know, it's funny because it might seem overwhelming but the goal is to get people to look at this stuff. I mean it's not about saying, Oh my gosh, I have to fill all of this in because if you're not all the channels so you're not looking, but if you just start looking at your analytics and realizing which content is pulling the most people in, or I still get a ton of traffic from Facebook organically all the time, you know, that's probably my top social refer. And then you can also see opportunities. I mean I know Pinterest is a search engine. I think the planner would do phenomenal on Pinterest. That's in the plans. Right? So, but the point is to get people just to start looking at it and you know, to kind of circle back to the, everything is content. We all know that stories sell. We also know SEO works. But I think too many people avoid creating, cause they have no clue where to start with SEO. If you would just talk to people and share stories that they can see themselves in, have you listened to or read Donald Miller's StoryBrand?

Josiah: Yeah.

Kim: Right. So the big one of the biggest takeaways from that for me was where he talked about the hero's journey and you're not the hero in your journey, your subscriber, your visitor, your reader needs to see themselves as the hero. And if I could recommend anything to anybody, I'm going to just do a quick little side, but in 2016, I hired Jason Hornung, he does Facebook ads. Jason totally restored my faith in people in this space because he walks the walk. I was a done with you campaign when I was doing the done for you podcasting. What it really made me realize was, man, if you can do nothing else but master the fundamentals in this business when it comes to marketing, really take the time to understand writing, to understand copy, to pay attention to what people are asking. And talking about instead of tactical stuff. And I love tactics, like I so believe in messenger. I just don't have the bandwidth to do it that much. I do it for live streams. There's messenger and there's this and there's so many different types of ads and stuff, but none of that's going to work if you can't write decent copy. If you can't compel somebody to opt in for something organic. If I could get anybody to listen to anything that stuff, that mastery of the fundamentals is gold, it just is gold. And I think you also instill this sense of trust in yourself that you're in this for the long game, right? That I did a, it was called my almost daily emails. I followed Ben Settle, but I just was like, look, I'm going to do this whether people unsubscribe or not, I wanted to practice this storytelling style email with one link and call the action. The first month nothing happened. And then after that, I like thrive themes, the builder for marketing pages. And so next thing you know, it's like my thrive stuffs tripling and all because I'm just sending people to stuff and they know I use it. I don't promote stuff I don't use. But my affiliate commissions triple. But I started getting responses and people are like, Oh, I love your emails. Or that's when you start connecting with people. And I seriously did it just to show myself up, like, and stick with something. Right? I'm like, I want to get better at this. I'm willing to lose subscribers. I'm willing for nothing to happen here until I see the results. That piece of it, you know, and I'm telling all these stories, it's just sort of being tenacious and sticking with it and keep showing up. That's another my hashtags. I don't know why I think I have to keep making hashtags.

Josiah: I love it. That's actually one of my own kind of personal motivations for doing this podcast. I've talked a little bit about before this call, my adversion to commitment. In a former life I'll say. Over the last year or two, it's really figuring out ways to practice that in my life in different in different avenues. And I've really doubled down on that in the last couple of months and I'm just doing daily things to kind of reprogram my brain to like rewire my brain to like be committed to things...

Kim: And they're simple, right?

Josiah: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, just little things every day to be committed. And the podcast is one of the big things for me, cause it's something that I have wanted to do for a long time, but the thought of it was if I start it, I have to finish it and I have to like be consistent with it for it to like get anywhere. That means I have to commit to it. So like I'm shooting myself in the foot before you even start because I don't want to commit to it. And this never get started.

Kim: Well, and the thing is, it's like you're totally telling yourself a story that's not necessarily true. That's actually going to be my next episode is the stories we tell ourselves. Because the thing is like, I think back to like school even. And on one hand I would tell myself, Oh, I'm not great at studying or this, or I can't grasp these concepts. I hated chemistry, but put me in a class that interests me and I can kill it. I could write a paper the night before and it was fine. So I don't know that you're, you have a commitment aversion, you simply haven't found the thing that you want to commit to. At the same time as an adult, you have to tell yourself, I'm going to do this because we're not always gonna feel like it. Right. And if you wait to feel like it, have fun with that we're not three years old, we can't throw a tantrum on the floor. And you know, so at some point you do it because it needs to be done and you've made that commitment to yourself first and foremost. We were talking about, you know, I was telling you that I talked with Corey Miller about the podcast and, and Oh, I started it cause I wanted to have fun. At the same time, it is the best relationship builder hands down. Like I totally feel like we could chit chat now about all this energy stuff after.

Josiah: That'll be another call.

Kim: But you know, the point is, it's like you have a conversation with somebody, how do you not feel. It's not going to be every single time obviously. And I've had plenty of interviews where you're like, no, yes. And you're going, okay, I know I can pull stuff out, but this is going to be half the time. Anyways, I agree. I mean the podcast thing, I think it's fantastic.

Josiah: I also wanted to say, one of the things that I really loved about the, the content planner when we first saw it was how you the real tangible analytics, real tangible, like sales goals to the content. I feel like a lot of times the people that I talk with are just, they're so focused on I've got to get out content, I've got to get this stuff out the door. You know, I've got to make sure, you know, I'm putting everything out and they're just kind of, they're so in the thick of it that it's hard to sort of take a step back, take a breather and get some perspective and see, okay, what am I actually trying to achieve here? And so that's what I love about the content planner is that helps you, it gives you a framework, a tool to kind of pull yourself out of the day to day craziness and actually say, okay, at the end of the day, my business needs dollars coming in, in order for it to be a business. So, how do I make that happen? And how do I make sure that the content that I'm creating is actually going to do that. So I love it. Great job.

Kim: So you know, and it's funny because with the content with the blog on the content creator site, like we want to do a newsletter and a podcast for that brand and it's going to happen when the time is there. However, with the content it was like, okay, the goal is, we're running paid traffic, we get plenty of new subscribers that way. But they're our customer. So we don't get a ton of just opt-ins necessarily. So obviously content has to be a piece of that. Right? And so one of the pieces in the planner, and this is where I think people really overthink content, is the content types checklist, right? It's a two page spread. There's eight different types of content. We've got blog posts, a podcast, video, infograph. There's like eight different ones and it's like this little checklist of what to include. And I thought, okay, so these are super valuable and we give that away as a lead magnet. But if you pay attention to the space you're in, I don't know if you've noticed this, Josiah but templates and printables are huge right now, right? Because I keep feeling this, that the market has matured. And so you have people that are like, even though I might have fun playing in Canva, I cannot spend all day there. So if somebody can give me a template to knock out quality images that I can then re-purpose. And that's great. So I started looking at this and I thought, okay, well what if we created printable versions of those posts? So I took and I have dear designer, I mean, obviously Jody's a designer, but it doesn't have a ton of time. So I'm like, look, let's just take each of these checklists. And I did almost a 2,000 word post and I made it a printable with calls to action inside of it. To download the printable print it once. You don't have to check it off. But, and I explained each of those elements. So here's your headline, here's your sub-headline. This is how you find your image alt tag and how you changed the name of it or whatever. So I just did and that's really kind of rudimentary beginner's stuff. At the same time there's plenty, I mean how many people are getting started everyday in this space. And so the next step will be to test paid to that content. But the point is then within that, if they like the checklist, I mean the next step is the planner in essence, right? Or maybe there's a content kit that we're working on that goes in between that. You start stepping back and saying, I don't want to say we got lucky. I think timing worked. I think people wanted it. It just, you know it just is working but we still want to step back and make sure the foundation is set. Now there's that piece because it goes to our business goals. The other side of that is do not be afraid or don't hesitate to create content just cause you want to rant or get something off your chest. One of the most shared, this is a funny one, pieces of content that I did, I don't know, probably last spring and it was, I was so tired. I love Game of Thrones. I was so tired of seeing everybody who was anti Game of Thrones proudly proclaim all over social media. How I've never watched an episode of Game of Thrones. I'm like, what's your point? And it was just because it came across as this pontificating holier than thou sort of thing. And this is obviously just my opinion, but that's why it's fun to have your own platform. You can give it once in a while, and I'm never mean, I did an email and it literally, the subject line was, nobody cares what you don't do. Like, why wouldn't you go around talking about what you don't do and who cares if GoT fans are enthusiastic and excited and happy. What a B. It's like, why on earth would you begrudge somebody else's joy? Like, don't be a dick. Right? Like, that was kind of the point of it. And so then I'm like, I'm going to publish this as a blog post. Do you know how many people share that? We're like, hello. And obviously they're all GoT fans, but it was like my point, I'm like, just be nice. You don't need to be this person. So then you get that insight into my personality. Right? And it really connected me with some people. I've done those really heartfelt painful posts that I get these loving out pouring and stuff, but it's okay to have an opinion. Love me. Hate me. Don't be indifferent.

Josiah: Love it. Kim, I feel like we could probably talk for another several hours, but I want to let you get back. Thank you so much for coming on. Before we hop off here, can you just tell everyone where they can find you?

Kim: Yeah. and it's still or either place, and pretty much most of my social channels are Kim Doyal.

Josiah: Awesome. Thanks so much again. Really appreciate it and I don't really know how to end this yet, so we'll just sign off. Okay.

Kim: Peace out, Josiah.

Josiah: Peace out.

Josiah: Hey everyone. Thanks for listening to this episode of Content Heroes. Before you go, I want to share a really exciting announcement. After recording this episode, Kim generously agreed to donate three planners for a special giveaway we're running to promote the launch of this podcast. Three lucky winners will each get a physical copy of the Content Creators Planner shipped to them for free, as well as free lifetime access to the content masterclass, which is an online course teaching you how to get the most out of your new planner. These two items along with the shipping are worth almost $100 in value and even more. The impact they can have on your business is invaluable. So be sure to head over to to get more details on how you can enter to win. Once again, visit and enter to win one of these awesome content planners today.

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